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	<title>Comments on: Placeholders on Conscience and Consciousness</title>
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	<description>Theory In The Rough</description>
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		<title>By: Roughtheory.org &#187; Fragmentary Thoughts on Anger</title>
		<link>http://roughtheory.org/2007/03/02/placeholders-on-conscience-and-consciousness/#comment-621</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Roughtheory.org &#187; Fragmentary Thoughts on Anger]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Mar 2008 12:13:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.roughtheory.org/content/placeholders-on-conscience-and-consciousness/#comment-621</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] problem may be even more complex. As I&#8217;ve written in relation to Adorno&#8217;s work before, there is a sense in which active participation in transformative projects aggressively [...] ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] problem may be even more complex. As I&#8217;ve written in relation to Adorno&#8217;s work before, there is a sense in which active participation in transformative projects aggressively [...] </p>
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		<title>By: N Pepperell</title>
		<link>http://roughtheory.org/2007/03/02/placeholders-on-conscience-and-consciousness/#comment-620</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[N Pepperell]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Mar 2007 04:10:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.roughtheory.org/content/placeholders-on-conscience-and-consciousness/#comment-620</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[My gut feeling is that Adorno, at least, thinks that what would replace abstract universalism is something based on a transformed and sublated mimetic faculty.  He seems to understand mimesis as something that structures thought in the state of human vulnerability to nature, where there is an interpentration of inner and outer life, subjectivity and objectivity, as an accurate reflection of the genuine relationship of dependence of humanity on the natural world.  So mimesis is originally a kind of aquiescence in the face of genuine vulnerability - a bringing into the self of nature in its diversity and multiplicity, but in a process essentially driven by nature&#039;s transcendent objective power...

We begin to free ourselves from this power - and to step away from mimetic forms of thought, and toward abstract universalism - as our objective mastery over nature increases.  In his account, though, this mastery was historically achieved via the imposition of a &quot;second nature&quot; of class relations - which then cloaked themselves in the aura of &quot;nature&quot;, asserting themselves as timeless, inevitable, essential.  This second nature (and the psychological dynamics associated with it) then reacted back on our perception of &quot;first nature&quot; - causing us to lose the mimetic appreciation of the non-universal in the natural world, and flatten our perception of the natural world into the search for lawlike, repetitive behaviour - modelled on the lawlike, repetitive, mechanistic reassertion that characterises the reproduction of social domination...

Adorno seems to think that we can untie this knot - that we can dissolve both the forms of social domination, and their associated forms of thought and perception of the natural world - and reinstate something like a transcended mimesis:  a form of perception and thought capable of recognising contingency and diversity, but without this being coerced, as it were, by our abject vulnerability to nature...

It&#039;s difficult to say whether Adorno would articulate this in terms of a different form of universalism - I suspect he would avoid the term, and my impulse is also to conceptualise his sense of an alternative - of some form of transcendent mimesis - as a &quot;pessimistic&quot; position in the technical sense:  I don&#039;t think he grounds this potential in any kind of social analysis.

I have myself, though, played around with the idea of alternative conceptions of universals - I&#039;ve used the phrase &quot;historical universal&quot;, in fact.  My sense would be that we&#039;ve coercively demonstrated to ourselves, often in quite ugly ways, that certain things might be possible - and that critique can understand itself, at least in part, as a process of extracting these insights from the alienated forms in which they were historically achieved...  Not that I can develop this sort of position here...  But just to flag that it&#039;s an issue that interests me.

I started to answer your final question on sacrifices, but felt my answer was getting vast and starting to crawl up its own tail...  ;-P  Basically:  yes - I think it would mean different sacrifices.  I&#039;m more leery about quantitative comparisons - but we can make comparisons perhaps in terms of sacrifices we might rather make - sacrifices that don&#039;t impose the kinds of costs we&#039;re imposing on ourselves now...

But I have so much work to do on Adorno - even to convince myself that the sort of reading I keep tossing out here in fits and starts is accurate.  The difficulty is that central lines within Adorno&#039;s historical argument, for example, stand in tension with more prescriptive statements about what critical theory &quot;ought&quot; to do - and there are also much more socially specific theories lurking around in his text - theories that, I think, he can&#039;t properly develop, because he is committed to understanding modernity primarily in terms of class relations, and I think this prevents him from picking up on the implications of some of what he does write...  But I always worry that, on the next re-read, I&#039;ll change my mind completely...

On the late response:  please don&#039;t worry about that - I can&#039;t tell you how many things I have stacked up that I want to reply to, but just haven&#039;t had the time lately...  And, by the same token, apologies that this is so scattered - the beginning of the term (particularly the beginning of &lt;em&gt;this&lt;/em&gt; term ;-P) is not great for... er... abstract conceptual thought - and sadly not for any transformative reasons...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My gut feeling is that Adorno, at least, thinks that what would replace abstract universalism is something based on a transformed and sublated mimetic faculty.  He seems to understand mimesis as something that structures thought in the state of human vulnerability to nature, where there is an interpentration of inner and outer life, subjectivity and objectivity, as an accurate reflection of the genuine relationship of dependence of humanity on the natural world.  So mimesis is originally a kind of aquiescence in the face of genuine vulnerability &#8211; a bringing into the self of nature in its diversity and multiplicity, but in a process essentially driven by nature&#8217;s transcendent objective power&#8230;</p>
<p>We begin to free ourselves from this power &#8211; and to step away from mimetic forms of thought, and toward abstract universalism &#8211; as our objective mastery over nature increases.  In his account, though, this mastery was historically achieved via the imposition of a &#8220;second nature&#8221; of class relations &#8211; which then cloaked themselves in the aura of &#8220;nature&#8221;, asserting themselves as timeless, inevitable, essential.  This second nature (and the psychological dynamics associated with it) then reacted back on our perception of &#8220;first nature&#8221; &#8211; causing us to lose the mimetic appreciation of the non-universal in the natural world, and flatten our perception of the natural world into the search for lawlike, repetitive behaviour &#8211; modelled on the lawlike, repetitive, mechanistic reassertion that characterises the reproduction of social domination&#8230;</p>
<p>Adorno seems to think that we can untie this knot &#8211; that we can dissolve both the forms of social domination, and their associated forms of thought and perception of the natural world &#8211; and reinstate something like a transcended mimesis:  a form of perception and thought capable of recognising contingency and diversity, but without this being coerced, as it were, by our abject vulnerability to nature&#8230;</p>
<p>It&#8217;s difficult to say whether Adorno would articulate this in terms of a different form of universalism &#8211; I suspect he would avoid the term, and my impulse is also to conceptualise his sense of an alternative &#8211; of some form of transcendent mimesis &#8211; as a &#8220;pessimistic&#8221; position in the technical sense:  I don&#8217;t think he grounds this potential in any kind of social analysis.</p>
<p>I have myself, though, played around with the idea of alternative conceptions of universals &#8211; I&#8217;ve used the phrase &#8220;historical universal&#8221;, in fact.  My sense would be that we&#8217;ve coercively demonstrated to ourselves, often in quite ugly ways, that certain things might be possible &#8211; and that critique can understand itself, at least in part, as a process of extracting these insights from the alienated forms in which they were historically achieved&#8230;  Not that I can develop this sort of position here&#8230;  But just to flag that it&#8217;s an issue that interests me.</p>
<p>I started to answer your final question on sacrifices, but felt my answer was getting vast and starting to crawl up its own tail&#8230;  ;-P  Basically:  yes &#8211; I think it would mean different sacrifices.  I&#8217;m more leery about quantitative comparisons &#8211; but we can make comparisons perhaps in terms of sacrifices we might rather make &#8211; sacrifices that don&#8217;t impose the kinds of costs we&#8217;re imposing on ourselves now&#8230;</p>
<p>But I have so much work to do on Adorno &#8211; even to convince myself that the sort of reading I keep tossing out here in fits and starts is accurate.  The difficulty is that central lines within Adorno&#8217;s historical argument, for example, stand in tension with more prescriptive statements about what critical theory &#8220;ought&#8221; to do &#8211; and there are also much more socially specific theories lurking around in his text &#8211; theories that, I think, he can&#8217;t properly develop, because he is committed to understanding modernity primarily in terms of class relations, and I think this prevents him from picking up on the implications of some of what he does write&#8230;  But I always worry that, on the next re-read, I&#8217;ll change my mind completely&#8230;</p>
<p>On the late response:  please don&#8217;t worry about that &#8211; I can&#8217;t tell you how many things I have stacked up that I want to reply to, but just haven&#8217;t had the time lately&#8230;  And, by the same token, apologies that this is so scattered &#8211; the beginning of the term (particularly the beginning of <em>this</em> term ;-P) is not great for&#8230; er&#8230; abstract conceptual thought &#8211; and sadly not for any transformative reasons&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Joseph Kugelmass</title>
		<link>http://roughtheory.org/2007/03/02/placeholders-on-conscience-and-consciousness/#comment-619</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Joseph Kugelmass]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Mar 2007 03:32:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.roughtheory.org/content/placeholders-on-conscience-and-consciousness/#comment-619</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This post makes me wonder is whether Adorno&#039;s position can lead us to create two separate universalisms: the historical universalism that often &lt;i&gt;has&lt;/i&gt; led to marginalization and oppression, and a historically possible, but so far unrealized, universalism that avoids the cycle of projection and destruction. That would also mean a universalism whose sacrifices are less or different.

What are your thoughts on this? Sorry for the late response, the post was absorbing reading and I&#039;ve had it flagged for awhile now.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This post makes me wonder is whether Adorno&#8217;s position can lead us to create two separate universalisms: the historical universalism that often <i>has</i> led to marginalization and oppression, and a historically possible, but so far unrealized, universalism that avoids the cycle of projection and destruction. That would also mean a universalism whose sacrifices are less or different.</p>
<p>What are your thoughts on this? Sorry for the late response, the post was absorbing reading and I&#8217;ve had it flagged for awhile now.</p>
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		<title>By: Edward Yates</title>
		<link>http://roughtheory.org/2007/03/02/placeholders-on-conscience-and-consciousness/#comment-618</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Edward Yates]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Mar 2007 06:08:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.roughtheory.org/content/placeholders-on-conscience-and-consciousness/#comment-618</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well slide...another term for slippery-dip...and a more positive &#039;framing&#039; of the concept.  Who doesn&#039;t like to slide?!  I should start working for the Democrats...oh wait they already have someone!  Perhaps PR work then for old folks homes... :P]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well slide&#8230;another term for slippery-dip&#8230;and a more positive &#8216;framing&#8217; of the concept.  Who doesn&#8217;t like to slide?!  I should start working for the Democrats&#8230;oh wait they already have someone!  Perhaps PR work then for old folks homes&#8230; <img src='http://s2.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif' alt=':P' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: N Pepperell</title>
		<link>http://roughtheory.org/2007/03/02/placeholders-on-conscience-and-consciousness/#comment-617</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[N Pepperell]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Mar 2007 00:33:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.roughtheory.org/content/placeholders-on-conscience-and-consciousness/#comment-617</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[So it&#039;s not a decline, but a &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.roughtheory.org/content/in-the-groove/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;sliiiide&lt;/a&gt;...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So it&#8217;s not a decline, but a <a href="http://www.roughtheory.org/content/in-the-groove/" rel="nofollow">sliiiide</a>&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Edward Yates</title>
		<link>http://roughtheory.org/2007/03/02/placeholders-on-conscience-and-consciousness/#comment-616</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Edward Yates]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Mar 2007 23:26:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.roughtheory.org/content/placeholders-on-conscience-and-consciousness/#comment-616</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[No, no, it is probably a case of that I&#039;m just going senile!  :P

The slide into old age, I suspect, is going to be quite easy...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, no, it is probably a case of that I&#8217;m just going senile!  <img src='http://s2.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif' alt=':P' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>The slide into old age, I suspect, is going to be quite easy&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: N Pepperell</title>
		<link>http://roughtheory.org/2007/03/02/placeholders-on-conscience-and-consciousness/#comment-615</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[N Pepperell]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Mar 2007 16:25:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.roughtheory.org/content/placeholders-on-conscience-and-consciousness/#comment-615</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yeah, yeah sure - blame it on &lt;em&gt;my&lt;/em&gt; Adorno threads...  ;-P  More seriously:  I keep writing these little placeholder-style pieces on Adorno, rather than developing a reading of him in full, because I just haven&#039;t had the time to trawl back through &lt;em&gt;Negative Dialectics&lt;/em&gt; in enough detail to do something proper - so it probably provokes questions because I&#039;m being so abbreviated...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, yeah sure &#8211; blame it on <em>my</em> Adorno threads&#8230;  ;-P  More seriously:  I keep writing these little placeholder-style pieces on Adorno, rather than developing a reading of him in full, because I just haven&#8217;t had the time to trawl back through <em>Negative Dialectics</em> in enough detail to do something proper &#8211; so it probably provokes questions because I&#8217;m being so abbreviated&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Edward Yates</title>
		<link>http://roughtheory.org/2007/03/02/placeholders-on-conscience-and-consciousness/#comment-614</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Edward Yates]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Mar 2007 10:45:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.roughtheory.org/content/placeholders-on-conscience-and-consciousness/#comment-614</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I had forgotten that I had responded to that thread!   Actually my question seems remarkably similar from one thread to another, perhaps an unconscious interest or way of responding to your Adorno threads...curious...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I had forgotten that I had responded to that thread!   Actually my question seems remarkably similar from one thread to another, perhaps an unconscious interest or way of responding to your Adorno threads&#8230;curious&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: N Pepperell</title>
		<link>http://roughtheory.org/2007/03/02/placeholders-on-conscience-and-consciousness/#comment-613</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[N Pepperell]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Mar 2007 06:39:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.roughtheory.org/content/placeholders-on-conscience-and-consciousness/#comment-613</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yeah, I find Adorno a bit like that too...  There are a couple of earlier posts that try to make some sense of Adorno&#039;s position on this - both are kind of short and underdeveloped, but are still more detailed than anything I could write tonight (I still have a lecture to prepare (!!!) and so can&#039;t procrastinate as much on the blog as I&#039;d like...  ;-P).  If you want to take a look, they&#039;re &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.roughtheory.org/content/the-first-taste-of-freedom/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt; and &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.roughtheory.org/content/sociology-and-psychology/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt; (the second one you might have seen, but the first was, I&#039;m reasonably sure, before you started reading the blog).

Edited to add:  Ack!  The second one you &lt;em&gt;did&lt;/em&gt; see - and commented on, no less!  Sorry Ed - my brain clearly isn&#039;t functioning tonight...  Nevertheless, I think the first post might be new to you...  (and, if not... well...  that&#039;ll give you some sense of the level of lecture I&#039;m probably about to write...)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, I find Adorno a bit like that too&#8230;  There are a couple of earlier posts that try to make some sense of Adorno&#8217;s position on this &#8211; both are kind of short and underdeveloped, but are still more detailed than anything I could write tonight (I still have a lecture to prepare (!!!) and so can&#8217;t procrastinate as much on the blog as I&#8217;d like&#8230;  ;-P).  If you want to take a look, they&#8217;re <a href="http://www.roughtheory.org/content/the-first-taste-of-freedom/" rel="nofollow">here</a> and <a href="http://www.roughtheory.org/content/sociology-and-psychology/" rel="nofollow">here</a> (the second one you might have seen, but the first was, I&#8217;m reasonably sure, before you started reading the blog).</p>
<p>Edited to add:  Ack!  The second one you <em>did</em> see &#8211; and commented on, no less!  Sorry Ed &#8211; my brain clearly isn&#8217;t functioning tonight&#8230;  Nevertheless, I think the first post might be new to you&#8230;  (and, if not&#8230; well&#8230;  that&#8217;ll give you some sense of the level of lecture I&#8217;m probably about to write&#8230;)</p>
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		<title>By: Edward Yates</title>
		<link>http://roughtheory.org/2007/03/02/placeholders-on-conscience-and-consciousness/#comment-612</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Edward Yates]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Mar 2007 03:34:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.roughtheory.org/content/placeholders-on-conscience-and-consciousness/#comment-612</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[No don&#039;t apologize, that is much clearer for me in terms of reading your original post through that clarification.  I do understand your hesitation of saying &#039;Adorno meant X&#039;.  But I do appreciate your adept interpretation.  :-)  As I just get lost and feel like I am on some psychotropic journey when I last attempted to read some of his writing.  So basically your reading is that rage stems from our feeling that our suffering or condition is social in nature and we long to change our conditions, but fear exclusion like those who are weak, hence we turn on those weaker than us in anger?  So fear begets anger...hmmm... I think Jedi master Yoda had something to say about that... Oh well see you on the dark side.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No don&#8217;t apologize, that is much clearer for me in terms of reading your original post through that clarification.  I do understand your hesitation of saying &#8216;Adorno meant X&#8217;.  But I do appreciate your adept interpretation.  <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' />   As I just get lost and feel like I am on some psychotropic journey when I last attempted to read some of his writing.  So basically your reading is that rage stems from our feeling that our suffering or condition is social in nature and we long to change our conditions, but fear exclusion like those who are weak, hence we turn on those weaker than us in anger?  So fear begets anger&#8230;hmmm&#8230; I think Jedi master Yoda had something to say about that&#8230; Oh well see you on the dark side.</p>
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